Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1993 11:52:24 -1000 From: brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) Message-Id: <1993Jun15.215224.14505@Princeton.EDU> Organization: Very little. Subject: Various stunt questions Well, now that I've flown my Sorceror a bit, I've got a bunch of questions. I started with 150' of 150# spectra. I'm now flying 100' of 150# at the suggestion of the guys at the park. I'm planning on picking up some 80# spectra because the wind is often pretty light here. The 150' 150# line seemed to really hurt the response of the kite. Comments? What is a snap stall? How does one recover from a turtle? After unintentionally turtling my kite, I figured out how to do it intentionally. I recovered once, but after much running and random flailing of the arms. Is a tip stand what it sounds like? Bringing the kite down on one wingtip while keeping the other tip steady in the air? How does one do a leading edge launch? I can usually get the kite turned around on the ground and doing a normal launch (with the kite on its back) but this is hardly graceful. The fixture joining the spine and the cross spar is now loose. ie its position now moves on the spine. I'm pretty sure that it didn't do this originally. Is this a problem? How do I know where it should be? (Yes, I realize now that I should have measured everything before I started flying it.) Thanks in advance! Brett -- brett@surfpix.princeton.edu Brett Borowski = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:24:58 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun17.202458.10668@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Various stunt questions In article , WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss) writes: >Okay, on behalf of all us novices, I'll ask... what's a turtle? (And I >don't want any replies back saying it is a green animal with a shell! ) >Seriously, I would guess it refers to your kite being on its back with the >nose facing towards you? Why it's a reptile with a hard shell, often green in color... There are two moves that are referred to as a turtle. The first is to have the kite lieing on it's back with the nose facing you. The second is to have the kite in the air, on it's back, with the nose pointing away. I responded assuming that the second type of turtle was being talked about. >My most common problem involves having the kite end up standing on it's nose. >Any suggestions on how to get it to flip over for launching? Or should I be >looking at the aforementioned leading edge launch? A leading edge launch or one of the other launches that Ron Reich described in his post are two ways of getting the kite upright. Or, you can try the Scott Augenbaugh downwind-nose-launch-without- touching-either-wingtip. This isn't as hard as it looks or as hard as it sounds. I can't do it with any degree of consistancy, and it is much harder to do with some kites than with others. For instance, this is hard to do with the Katana, but I don't have much problem doing this with a North Shore Radical. Anyway, pull the kite up on it's nose. You will notice that you can get it to rock back and forth by pulling or pushing slightly on one line or the other. Push on one hand and just before the leading edge touches the ground, pull on the pushed hand and push on the opposite hand. The pull is more of a jerk. This move is entirely timing. If you pull too soon or too late the kite will just flop onto the other leading edge. It helps if the outhaul bridles (the short ones on most kites) are short and the bridle points are on the low side of the long bridle line. You can also break kites learning to do this, so be a little careful... -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 10:20:29 -1000 From: WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss) Message-Id: Organization: Novell, Inc. Subject: Re: Various stunt questions In article <1993Jun17.181349.9263@das.harvard.edu> sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) writes: >From: sasaki@netop3.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) >Subject: Re: Various stunt questions >Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 18:13:49 GMT >>How does one recover from a turtle? After unintentionally turtling my kite, >>I figured out how to do it intentionally. I recovered once, but after much >>running and random flailing of the arms. Okay, on behalf of all us novices, I'll ask... what's a turtle? (And I don't want any replies back saying it is a green animal with a shell! ) Seriously, I would guess it refers to your kite being on its back with the nose facing towards you? My most common problem involves having the kite end up standing on it's nose. Any suggestions on how to get it to flip over for launching? Or should I be looking at the aforementioned leading edge launch? = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 08:13:49 -1000 From: sasaki@das.harvard.edu (Marty Sasaki) Message-Id: <1993Jun17.181349.9263@das.harvard.edu> Organization: Harvard University Subject: Re: Various stunt questions I was going to let others respond. Bert Tanaka did a good description of a snap stall. However, it's been a few days and I've seen nothing about the other points so... In article <1993Jun15.215224.14505@Princeton.EDU>, brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) writes: >I started with 150' of 150# spectra. I'm now flying 100' of 150# at the >suggestion of the guys at the park. I'm planning on picking up some >80# spectra because the wind is often pretty light here. The 150' 150# >line seemed to really hurt the response of the kite. Comments? As Bert says, it all depends, and it ends up being personal taste. I guess this should go into the FAQ... >What is a snap stall? Bert's description is a good one... >How does one recover from a turtle? After unintentionally turtling my kite, >I figured out how to do it intentionally. I recovered once, but after much >running and random flailing of the arms. Recovering from a tutle is a matter of touch and timing and it varies >From one kite to another. The Big Brother/Little Sister can be recovered by a firm jerk. The Katana requires a little timing. When the kite is turtled the nose will usually dip up and down a little. When it bobs up give it tug, when it bobs up again give it a stronger tug, it should pop out then. One thing that can help with this is something that I call a cheater line. Run a piece of monofilament nylon from one wingtip, to the bottom of the spine, then to the other wingtip. This will give you a little more leverage to flip it back. >Is a tip stand what it sounds like? Bringing the kite down on one wingtip >while keeping the other tip steady in the air? Yes, that's a tip stand. You can bring the tip forcefully down and that's called a wing stab. >How does one do a leading edge launch? I can usually get the kite turned >around on the ground and doing a normal launch (with the kite on its back) >but this is hardly graceful. Ron Reich had a description of how to do that. Check with past articles or ask Ron to send you his description. >The fixture joining the spine and the cross spar is now loose. ie its >position now moves on the spine. I'm pretty sure that it didn't do this >originally. Is this a problem? How do I know where it should be? (Yes, I >realize now that I should have measured everything before I started >flying it.) This is usually not a serious problem, but it should be solidly anchored in place. The Katanas have little vinyl rings that are glued in place on the spine. When they come loose (and eventually they do come loose), the glue should be scraped away and they should be re-glued. I use CyA (super glue) or epoxy for this. Others use tape. I've seen tie-wraps glued in place as well. Placement is not "critical" but it is important. Try centering the T fitting in the hole in the sail. -- Marty Sasaki Harvard University Sasaki Kite Fabrications sasaki@noc.harvard.edu Network Services Division 26 Green Street 617-496-4320 10 Ware Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 Cambridge, MA 02138-4002 phone/fax: 617-522-8546 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 13:04:41 -1000 From: Darrin.Skinner@ebay.sun.com (Darrin Skinner) Message-Id: <9306172304.AA28575@stuntkite.EBay.Sun.COM> Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University Subject: Re: Various stunt questions brett@surfpix.princeton.edu (Brett Borowski) writes: -] -] Well, now that I've flown my Sorceror a bit, I've got a bunch of questions. -] -] -] How does one do a leading edge launch? I can usually get the kite turned -] around on the ground and doing a normal launch (with the kite on its back) -] but this is hardly graceful. -] I've been teaching this move to people for 6 years and never had a good way to explain it in words until I saw Alan Nagao teach the launch to someone at Greatlakes a month ago. Alan did something that I never considered doing and it's beautiful in its very simplicity. With the kite on the ground resting on one leading edge (the other is in the air), point the nose into the wind (i.e. toward the edge of the wind window). Lets assume the kite is pointed left. Thats puts the left leading edge on the ground. So, with your left hand reach out and grab the right flyline (about 2-3 feet out for a big wing) and PULL backing up as necessary. The kite will launch. Thats all there is to it! If you are pointed to the right, use your right hand to pull the left line. One small point: DONT do this in the middle of the wind or in real high wind. There is a danger of cutting/burning you hand on the flyline. DONT jerk the line, just pull smoothly back. Darrin (Thanks Alan) Skinner -] -] Thanks in advance! -] Brett