From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 01:53:00 -1000 Message-ID: griebeno@athena.mit.edu (Kai Griebenow) writes: >Now the serious question: Is there any advantage not to use felled >seems and instead overlay the material? This isn't a direct answer, but let me pick up the err... thread anyway: >From what I can gather, prism are using a stitch somewhat like a sine-wave. Here's a crude ASCII representation: ,.-~'``'~-.,,.-~'``'~-.,,.-~'``'~-.,,.-~'``'~-.,,.-~'``'~-.,,.-~'``'~-., (I hope you enjoyed that as much as me, Colin Douthwaite...) I like(*) this idea. Since the seam is usually in line with the fibres of the fabric, this stitch spreads that load across as many fibres as possible, while not having any sharp corners that may act as stress-points. (*) regulars may be as surprised as me to read this... Andrew -- How to look like an idiot on rec.kites: 15) Post subscription/unsubscription requests to the newsgroup = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: gerfen@hsc.usc.edu (Gary W. Gerfen) Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions Date: Sat, 6 Apr 1996 21:22:40 -1000 Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA Message-ID: <4k7qsc$kvp@usc.edu> navarrol@netcom.com (Larry Navarro) wrote: >In some kites constructed this way, it appears that the overlapping >panels are somehow glued to each other prior to the sewing taking place. >Does anyone know what type of adhesive is used for this purpose? >Does this method cause gumming up of the needle and thread? It's a very thin double sided "tape" made by 3M and sold by Hang'em High Fabrics. Sorry, don't have their number handy, but they advertise in the mags. And yes, I understand it does gum up the workings a bit. I imagine there's some structural advantage to both gluing and stitching the seam, but it may well be overkill, I suspect. It's main advantage may be simply to speed up production. Any advice from anyone who's actually used the stuff? Gary = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: "George W. Gilchrist" Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions Message-ID: <3169E6F4.52E8@eskimo.com> Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 18:26:28 -1000 Kai Griebenow wrote: ... > Quality is great on those kites. The stitch is probably something like a > stretch stich that allows expansion of the seem without breaking the thread > - is commonly used at seems where lots of tension is produced. > > Happy Kiting > > Kai Kai, Prism kites are all sewn on Bernina machines (1031 is, I believe, the model number) with a stitch like a multistitch zig-zag, except the zig and zags are joined by smooth curves, not corners. There are no straight stitches on critical seams. Seams are all taped using Seamstick. Felled seams are not used, only simple 1/4" overlaps with a single, undulating line of stitching. These are not stretch stitches; the Icarex used doesn't have enough stretch to worry about. Cheers, George -- *********************************************************** George W. Gilchrist gilchgw@zoology.washington.edu Department of Zoology Phone:(206) 543-4859 University of Washington Fax:(206) 543-3041 Seattle, WA 98195-1800 USA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: windwiz@west.net (Dan Rubesh) Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions Date: Mon, 8 Apr 1996 19:34:13 -1000 Organization: WestNet Communications Message-ID: <4kcssl$1qq@acme.sb.west.net> In article <4k7qsc$kvp@usc.edu>, Gary W. Gerfen wrote: >It's a very thin double sided "tape" made by 3M and sold by Hang'em >High Fabrics. Sorry, don't have their number handy, but they >advertise in the mags. Hang-Em High Fabrics Tom Marvin 1420 Yale Avenue Richmond VA 23224 U.S.A. 804/233-6155 (voice) 804/233-6155 (fax) tommarvin@aol.com -- Dan Rubesh GO Wind Wizard windwiz@west.net FLY A P.O. Box 5747 http://www.west.net/~windwiz SPORT KITE San Buenaventura, CA 93005 (805) 659-5769 (voice & fax) T.B.N.K. Member: AKA & KTA = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = From: lord@eskimo.com (David Lord) Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions Message-ID: Organization: Eskimo North (206) For-Ever Date: Thu, 11 Apr 1996 20:19:27 -1000 In article <4k7qsc$kvp@usc.edu> gerfen@hsc.usc.edu (Gary W. Gerfen) writes: >Xref: eskimo rec.kites:25865 >Path: >eskimo!mvb.saic.com!news.cerf.net!news.titan.com!news.tcst.com!news.spectrum.tit >an.com!dildog.lgc.com!news.sesqui.net!oitnews.harvard.edu!purdue!lerc.nasa.gov!m >agnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!usenet >From: gerfen@hsc.usc.edu (Gary W. Gerfen) >Newsgroups: rec.kites >Subject: Re: Sewing machine questions >Date: Sun, 07 Apr 1996 07:22:40 GMT >Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA >Lines: 22 >Sender: gerfen@comserv-h-31.usc.edu >Message-ID: <4k7qsc$kvp@usc.edu> >References: <4jd2no$ltj@ns.interserf.net> <315FFE8B.42FF@ccm.co.intel.com> ><4jsudt$eao@senator-bedfellow.MIT.EDU> <4jt0ks$22m@geog25.umd.edu> > >Reply-To: gerfen@hsc.usc.edu >NNTP-Posting-Host: comserv-h-31.usc.edu >navarrol@netcom.com (Larry Navarro) wrote: >>In some kites constructed this way, it appears that the overlapping >>panels are somehow glued to each other prior to the sewing taking place. >>Does anyone know what type of adhesive is used for this purpose? >>Does this method cause gumming up of the needle and thread? >It's a very thin double sided "tape" made by 3M and sold by Hang'em >High Fabrics. Sorry, don't have their number handy, but they >advertise in the mags. And yes, I understand it does gum up the >workings a bit. I imagine there's some structural advantage to both >gluing and stitching the seam, but it may well be overkill, I suspect. >It's main advantage may be simply to speed up production. >Any advice from anyone who's actually used the stuff? >Gary Gary The adhesive is a 3M product called 9460 PC. It doesn't make sense to me to use this adhesive in addition to sewing. This adhesive has a very high strength and is more than adequate to secure a joint on a kite. I did some calculations for Dick Curran for his article in Kitelines to asess the loads on a typical stunt kite leading edge joint. When I assumed a tension of fifty pounds in each fly line the load on the leading edge joint was several times lower than the adhesive strength. The only problem with using the adhesive is that the joints must be designed to be in shear and not in peel. This is not much of a problem for a delta stunter. The only problem I had using the adhesive was that when I folded up the kite to put it in the bag it caused a peel load at the nose reinforcement that does not exist in flight so I had to put a few stiches on the nose so I could store the kite in its bag. Dave Lord Dave Lord lord@eskimo.com check out http://www.eskimo.com/~lord = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =